Thank you so much for explaining that. I read the article through several times earlier today and then gave up trying to work out what it meant. It was written in such a complicated way.
I am sure Bill and Tony will find a vax for hybrid immune damping !
It’s convoluted on purpose, I expect it’s the only way they could get it published. I’m not sure this is ever going to get out into mainstream media, very powerful entities are at force here. Dare I say it, it needs a wealthy maverick like Musk, who doesn’t give a rats a### to blow the whistle on all this. I fear for his safety now…People I love have been double jabbed and one boosted ( was pregnant at the time!) - they are young and old and were bullied by colleagues, medical staff, society and relentless propaganda. Deep down I know they are afraid, I’m very afraid for them. I really can’t frighten them even more, unless someone comes up with a solution. We need to live the best lives we can. How can we help these people? Is there any help?
Let me dig up the source manana and post again but Karl Denninger highlighted this a year ago.
A paper was published which showed that due to the spike-specific immune response, 6/10 vaccinees can never create natural immunity against the nucleocapsid (N protein) of the virus so are doomed to get sick with Covid and other beta-coronaviruses forever.
I am seeing this in my own life, people are getting severe "colds" that render them bedridden for days at a time, every few weeks.
I don't recall ever being bed-ridden by a cold, do you? I also don't recall being sick with a cold and then sick with another cold two weeks later. But it's happening.
Vaccinated and had Covid is a big category with a lot of difference within it. I'd like to know if those who first had Covid, then got the vax, also lose their ability to respond to new variants.
Those who got the vax, then at some stage got Covid, that's potentially different.
They call it dampening because they wouldn't have got it published otherwise, clearly, and that will be why they didn't look at the unvaxxed.
Not sure about the effect on vaccine induced T-cells but we have known since nearly the beginning that vaccine induced memory B cells simply stop adapting after a few months. As if they were frozen in time.
It is hard to tell if you have correctly parsed the paper in question. Given the complexity of the paper, and that your post was issued only a few hours after publication, it is hard to see how you could have done so. Instead it merely seems that you have mimeographed some tidbits from the authors' own commentary, without delving into the results for yourself.
"The paper is fairly long and complex, but to summarise: They found that in vaccinated individuals that had prior infection, the immune response to Omicron variant was to improve the immune protection to earlier variants, but offered very little protection to Omicron variant."
As opposed to middling performance by the infection-naive+3rd-dosed and stronger performance by the 3rd-dosed+Omicron. It's not clear what you think the significance of the low anti-Omicron performance by the Wuhan+3rd-dosed+Omicron is supposed to be.
"And that in vaccinated individuals that had no prior infection, the immune response to Omicron variant was to improve the immune protection to earlier variants, but offered very little protection to Omicron variant."
Totally incorrect. 3rd-dosed+Omicron (but no Wuhan) outperform all other 3rd-dosed in anti-Omicron response in Fig S6.
The authors do not use "Original Antigenic Sin" because their results are not primarily measuring or testing post-Omicron performance. In so far as post-Omicron performance is measured, no comparison is offered to naive+unvaccinated+Omicron, so no conclusions about the effect of the vaccine are possible. Moreover, most of what the authors present is responses in 3rd-dosed+noOmicron sera, and in the cross-reactivity of same. For example: Infection-naive+3rd-dosed have X cross-reactivity to non-Wuhan strains, what about Wuhan/Alpha/Delta+3rd-dosed? They observe less cross-reactivity in some contexts. This isn't OAS, since OAS makes no comment on (already impossible to explain in the first place) front-loaded antigen cross-reactivity to future variants of an mRNA-coded spike protein, and so they do not *call* it OAS.
"No wonder our authorities desperately want us to forget about Covid." Not so - they want us to forget about natural immunity and keep jabbing like there is no tomorrow.
Does the study contradict the idea that the vaccinated don't produce N antibodies even after infection? This was noted in the UKHSA surveillance report (week 42, I believe) as well as in the Moderna data.
Hi, Bartram. I would like to ask you something about your academic credentials: Is it really true that that you are an "ex-academic and senior government scientist" as stated in your The Daily Sceptic? If so, I would like to be given proofs not because I doubt you, I want more clarity (I have not found anything related with your profile in internet because your real name is unknown). Thanks.
Thank you so much for explaining that. I read the article through several times earlier today and then gave up trying to work out what it meant. It was written in such a complicated way.
I am sure Bill and Tony will find a vax for hybrid immune damping !
It’s convoluted on purpose, I expect it’s the only way they could get it published. I’m not sure this is ever going to get out into mainstream media, very powerful entities are at force here. Dare I say it, it needs a wealthy maverick like Musk, who doesn’t give a rats a### to blow the whistle on all this. I fear for his safety now…People I love have been double jabbed and one boosted ( was pregnant at the time!) - they are young and old and were bullied by colleagues, medical staff, society and relentless propaganda. Deep down I know they are afraid, I’m very afraid for them. I really can’t frighten them even more, unless someone comes up with a solution. We need to live the best lives we can. How can we help these people? Is there any help?
And, - if that were not bad enough :-
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027869152200206X
Meddle not with that ye do not know.
Both innate and adaptive immunity are poorly understood.
Even worse, vaccinologists, or should I say - genetic engineers, misunderstand the bits we apparently know.
Their arrogance is surpassed only by their incompetence.
Lots of boosted people I know are getting very severe covid and flu....
VAIDS?
Just to clarify, following the paragraph “The paper is fairly long and complex, but to summarise”...
...the 2 bullet points are meant to be identical save for the word “no”? (Just checking there isn’t a cut and paste error)
Let me dig up the source manana and post again but Karl Denninger highlighted this a year ago.
A paper was published which showed that due to the spike-specific immune response, 6/10 vaccinees can never create natural immunity against the nucleocapsid (N protein) of the virus so are doomed to get sick with Covid and other beta-coronaviruses forever.
I am seeing this in my own life, people are getting severe "colds" that render them bedridden for days at a time, every few weeks.
I don't recall ever being bed-ridden by a cold, do you? I also don't recall being sick with a cold and then sick with another cold two weeks later. But it's happening.
"Naw, he didn't die from the fall, he died from 'Smackingintothegroundosis'"
Vaccinated and had Covid is a big category with a lot of difference within it. I'd like to know if those who first had Covid, then got the vax, also lose their ability to respond to new variants.
Those who got the vax, then at some stage got Covid, that's potentially different.
They call it dampening because they wouldn't have got it published otherwise, clearly, and that will be why they didn't look at the unvaxxed.
"When I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
Which appears to be the world we now live in.
Not sure about the effect on vaccine induced T-cells but we have known since nearly the beginning that vaccine induced memory B cells simply stop adapting after a few months. As if they were frozen in time.
It is hard to tell if you have correctly parsed the paper in question. Given the complexity of the paper, and that your post was issued only a few hours after publication, it is hard to see how you could have done so. Instead it merely seems that you have mimeographed some tidbits from the authors' own commentary, without delving into the results for yourself.
"The paper is fairly long and complex, but to summarise: They found that in vaccinated individuals that had prior infection, the immune response to Omicron variant was to improve the immune protection to earlier variants, but offered very little protection to Omicron variant."
As opposed to middling performance by the infection-naive+3rd-dosed and stronger performance by the 3rd-dosed+Omicron. It's not clear what you think the significance of the low anti-Omicron performance by the Wuhan+3rd-dosed+Omicron is supposed to be.
"And that in vaccinated individuals that had no prior infection, the immune response to Omicron variant was to improve the immune protection to earlier variants, but offered very little protection to Omicron variant."
Totally incorrect. 3rd-dosed+Omicron (but no Wuhan) outperform all other 3rd-dosed in anti-Omicron response in Fig S6.
The authors do not use "Original Antigenic Sin" because their results are not primarily measuring or testing post-Omicron performance. In so far as post-Omicron performance is measured, no comparison is offered to naive+unvaccinated+Omicron, so no conclusions about the effect of the vaccine are possible. Moreover, most of what the authors present is responses in 3rd-dosed+noOmicron sera, and in the cross-reactivity of same. For example: Infection-naive+3rd-dosed have X cross-reactivity to non-Wuhan strains, what about Wuhan/Alpha/Delta+3rd-dosed? They observe less cross-reactivity in some contexts. This isn't OAS, since OAS makes no comment on (already impossible to explain in the first place) front-loaded antigen cross-reactivity to future variants of an mRNA-coded spike protein, and so they do not *call* it OAS.
I would hypothesize that the “hybrid immune damping” would become less of an issue over time if we would just stop boosting.
"No wonder our authorities desperately want us to forget about Covid." Not so - they want us to forget about natural immunity and keep jabbing like there is no tomorrow.
Does the study contradict the idea that the vaccinated don't produce N antibodies even after infection? This was noted in the UKHSA surveillance report (week 42, I believe) as well as in the Moderna data.
Hi, Bartram. I would like to ask you something about your academic credentials: Is it really true that that you are an "ex-academic and senior government scientist" as stated in your The Daily Sceptic? If so, I would like to be given proofs not because I doubt you, I want more clarity (I have not found anything related with your profile in internet because your real name is unknown). Thanks.
Here's the link to Karl Denninger's article (*warning*, lots of profanity!):
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245912
And this is the study he is talking about:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.04.18.22271936v1.full
Anti-nucleocapsid antibodies following SARS-CoV-2 infection in the blinded phase of the mRNA-1273 Covid-19 vaccine efficacy clinical trial